Completely Unimportant Meeting

[Alanston]

A representative from the @Atomic Alliance, @Blue Dragon Republic, and @NCR are invited to Pontianak for a completely unimportant meeting with the Nusantaran foreign affairs minister, Angkasa Song, and the defense minister, Damarwulan. If they were to ask the purpose of the meeting, they would be informed that it pertains to common interests with regards to the Pacific. As the meeting is completely unimportant local press would not be made aware of it, and the government would not make a big deal over the meeting. All parties would be informed that the contents of the meeting, although completely unimportant, will be kept under strict confidentiality.

The @Japanese State is invited as well, if they wish to send a representative to the meeting.

[English Channel Union]

The Atomic Alliance will inform the Majapahit that the Minister of Foreign Relations Jessica will be attending the meeting to represent the opinion and interests of the Alliance.

Followed by the acceptance, the Atomic Alliance will dispatch the Foreign Minister aboard a 777-BBJ to the Nusantaran meeting location, once arriving she will disembark the aircraft and happily make her way to any welcoming party, extending a handshake and a welcoming introduction.

[NCR]

Since apparently the meeting is completely unimportant and doesn't need to be too flashy, the NCR will partecipate sending a delegation lead by the Vice Minister for Foreign Affairs and the Vice Minister for Defence.

[Alanston]

The Atomic and Californian delegates would be met at the airport by Angkasa Song, who would bow respectfully to the delegates, before shaking their hands. "Welcome to Majapahit, thank you both for agreeing to meet with us. If you'll follow me, I have a car waiting for us just outside." She would then lead them to a waiting car just outside the airport. Once inside the car, it would take them to a nearby government building. As they head to the government building, Song would inform the delegates of security measures.

"Just so there are no surprises, our meeting today involves confidential topics, and it is important that no information on it is released to the outside world at this time. As such, certain measures must be followed, due to the security of the meeting. First, we will all undergo a security screening upon entering the building, this is to check us for any potential bugs. I'm not saying that any of you have been bugged, but it's better to be safe than sorry. Second, your cell phones must be left in a secure area, this is again, to prevent our discussions from reaching unwanted ears. You will be returned your cell phones after the meeting. If at any time during the meeting you need to contact your home countries, a secure phone line will be provided in a private space for your use. I trust there are no issues with these procedures?"

Provided there were no concerns raised, when the car finally reaches the government building - which is more of a military compound than government building, the delegates, and Minister Song, would all undergo the security measures, before being brought into a secure meeting room. Inside they would find a conference table, a large map of the Pacific and East Asia on a nearby movable wall, and a small table with water, tea, and coffee. The land of those present would be outlined on the map in their national colours. Two additional nations would be outlined on the map, these being the Feng Empire and Yingzhou. Several computer monitors would also be present, along with a handful of soldiers and generals, most going about their own tasks, but some would be standing guard around the room. Minister Damarwulan would stand to greet the delegates upon their arrival.

"Thank you all for coming, please, help yourselves to some beverages, and take a seat. Before we begin, I would like to know if either of you have any concerns with working with anyone else present, or if you have any urgent matters that you wish to discuss. If not, we can continue to our business for today's meeting." Damarwulan would state, taking a seat himself after shaking hands and bowing respectfully to his guests.

► Show Spoiler

If Japan or BDR wish to drop in late, feel free to do so, and just imply that you were there the whole time.

@NCR you may want to get your military traits finished and your military sorted out by the end of this RP.

The Feng Empire controls all of IRL China except for what BDR has, Inner Mongolia, Tibet, Yunnan, and Xinjiang. Their capital is Nanjing. Yingzhou controls Oregon, Washington, BC, Idaho, the Alaskan panhandle, the western parts of Montana along the southern BC border to the edge of the Wyoming border, and Hawaii, their capital is IRL Vancouver. The Feng Empire is authoritarian, but not really fascist or communist. Yingzhou is a former Chinese colony and is technically a democracy, but they are in reality a Chinese puppet state, and are basically subservient to the wishes of the Feng Empire. The majority of the population in Yingzhou are ethnic (Mandarin) Chinese.

The Feng Empire has about 250 nukes
Yingzhou has about 125 nukes

Let me know in an OOC thread if you'd like more information on the Feng Empire or Yingzhou.

For anyone wondering, Angkasa Song is ethnically Hakka Chinese, and Damarwulan is Javanese.

[NCR]

<<It won't be a problem>> says the Vice Minister for Foreign Affairs Sara Middle, smiling.
<<I'm sure you've only the best interests of both our nations in mind.>>
Despite his colleague cheerful tone however, the Vice Minister for Defence looks obviously displeased, although he complies.

After entering the meeting room, and listening to Damarwulan, once again is V.M. Sara to answer:
<<We thank you for your esteemed hospitality>> she says.
<<We have not particular concerns, yet. But, we are most curious on what today's business will be about, and eager to work with you should this meeting be... fruitful.>> she concludes.



[for the mil traits: luckly I finished them yesterday. I will post the draft today as soon as I have time to rewrite it properly]

[English Channel Union]

Not a problem, Foreign Minister Jessica will state, providing her Cellphone, AtomDLink Device in Secure Mode, and Bluetooth Earpiece to the Security officers prior to the search.

Jessica will glance at the other representatives before stating
The Alliance does not present any concerns, it would appear the states present likely have aligned interests with ours. My Defense Minister and Intelligence Commissioner have expressed interest in this meeting, however.

[Alanston]

"Excellent, I am pleased that we are able to work together. Now, with regards to the purpose of this meeting. As I am certain both of you are aware, there are certain nations who shun democracy and actively go out of their way to flaunt their power. Today we are discussing the status of the Feng Empire and Yingzhou. I would like to discuss a joint coalition against the Chinese, in order to both cut them down to size, and to help introduce democratic ideals amongst their people. Initially, we will offer them a peaceful means to transition to democracy. When that, inevitably, fails, we will move in militarily with the goal of freeing their people and installing democracy.

"Now, if you are both interested in this operation, the next question becomes what we will do when we win the war. I believe the status of Yingzhou will be split between the two of you? I leave it up to the two of you to discuss how their lands will be split. However I would like to place a claim on their Hawaiian islands, primarily due to their historic importance as Austronesian lands. To this extent I would like to request that they become a protectorate under Majapahit. I am open to debate on this, though. As for the mainland Feng, I will not permit Americans to hold land in Asia, that is firm. I would like to request that the following provinces be annexed directly into Majapahit: Guangxi, Hainan, Guangdong, Hong Kong, Macau, Fujian, and possibly Zhejiang and Shanghai. The Paracel Islands would also be annexed by Majapahit. We will, of course, grant full rights to the local people, including representation, language rights, and local autonomy. We would then make the remainder of their lands into a new Chinese Republic, with joint supervision and military defense provided by us, until they are deemed ready for independence." Here he would pause to pull out several pieces of paper, handing them around.



"Prior to our invasion of the mainland, we will spread as much propaganda as possible, all pointing towards the failure of the current dynasty to uphold the Mandate of Heaven. Our reasoning will be that the Mandate of Heaven has left the current dynasty, which will give a certain legitimacy to our invasion. We will then frame it so the new democratic system we are installing is compatible with the Mandate of Heaven, and their elected leaders will hold onto the Mandate for the duration of their term, before passing it to their successors. Eventually, we can help them do away with the idea of the Mandate of Heaven.

"What are your thoughts on these matters?"

[NCR]

[Hi, I tried to formulate a consistent reply, but unfurtunately I understood that it's impossible for me to continue this RP without a clear map of the borders of the Feng Empire and Yingzhou. Could please draw one? It doesn't need to be neat like the players' map, just a rough shape of each country. Sorry to drag this on, but looking at the bright side having a map should also be helpful for the upcoming war. I'll reply back IC ASAP when I see it. Thank you!]

[Alanston]

Shortly after Damarwulan makes his proposal, one of the soldiers in the room passes out paper copies of the maps of the regions in question for each of the delegates.

[NCR]

Vice Minister for Foreign Affairs Sara Middle is the first to reply, after few whispers with her colleague:
<<Firstly, I'd like to express my approval of the general modus operandi. Expanding democracy is always commendable, and always in the interests of the NCR; in addition, the way of doing this is not only smart, but uses the local culture to ease the process. But...>>
<<But we have some concerns on how you proposed to handle the aftermath.>> Vice Minister for Defense Pierre Dupont adds, sternly.
<<We are three nations cooperating as equals to this dangerous operation; yet, while up to 280 millions people, and their vast territory and resources, will join Nusantara only should everything go according to plans, the NCR is supposed to split with the AA the management of Yingzhou, which while important geographically holds circa 14 milllions people; and, to top it off, it seems that we are not supposed to set foot in asia.
By the way, may you clarify that? Were you meaning ever, referred only to this war, or to the claims you laid?
And could you also clarify the why? After all, I don't think we would treat those people worse than you would, neither of us shares their ethnicity, and we don't think that us holding oversea land should block you; after all asia is vast, and us holding Shanghai, for example, shouldn't block your strategic objectives, like you holding Honduras wouldn't block ours. And if this shouldn't be the case, it's not a problem per se, but since we're talking about becoming de facto allies I think our relations should be good enough to tell each other and plan consequently.>>
<<Lastly, while we recognize the Austronesian origins of the Hawaii archipelago, we also believe that the following colonizations have unfortunately almost erased that heritage; as such, since due to their position the islands hold a great strategic relevance for us, we believe that having them would go a long way to grant a fairer compromise.>>

Sara waits for her collegue to finish, before adding with a conciliatory tone:
<<I'm sure that together we can think a fairer agreement. Since my collegue has talked a lot, I'll hear your proposals first. We'd also like to hear the prospective of our collegues of the @Atomic Alliance since, and please forgive me for making such assumptions, I think they would be more interested in holding a region oversea rather than having an exclave from Yingzhou. Also, I beg everyone in this room to help the success of this endeavour as much as possible. Not only this plan will allow the partecipants to reap great benefits in itself, but I think its repercussions will be even bigger: together, should our great nations allign their interests, we could become the most powerful block in the world by far. I know it seems like I'm trying to run before learning to walk, but I think that we truly are building something great here. As such, being as open and fair as possible would benefit everyone involved, in every possible aspect.>> Sara concluded, the fire of her passionate speech still burning in her determinate, yet hopeful, eyes.




[Hey, thanks again for the maps!]

[English Channel Union]

Representative Jessica will listen carefully to the statements from the Nusantara and NCR. When the papers are presented she will lean in to examine the maps when the soldiers present them in the room. Following Sarah's statements Jessica will get prepared to make her statement and indicate the position of the Atomic Alliance.

Regarding Yingzhou I believe our two states could agree upon the famous writer's depiction of North America, known under the synonym of "Mundos" with the British Colombians joining the Alliance and the "American" states joining the Californians as this region is very important to our Alliance.

Jessica will examine the map of Asia and the Pacific, while also searching for the resource and population data
I will have to echo the statements from the Californians, that Yingzhou only has approx 14 million while Mainland China and the Pacific hold much more, and the Alliance holds an interest in the Guangxi and Guizhou provinces with the city of Zhanjiang to ensure we maintain open trade routes, democratic institutions and ensure they cannot secure major regions in the event they try and revolt against the democratic installation. The Alliance holds the position that we should fairly divide Mainland China between our three states to establish and distribute the maintenance of new democratic governments and to prevent the formation of a dangerous empire in the Chinese mainland ever again.

in regards to Hawaii, it stands as a major stepping stone between our states, I believe we should establish the Principality of Hawaii, whereas the current native citizens of this region are granted tax immunity, and will their government consists of a yearly review council between our three states. Each of us will have port rights and the ability to transit goods through the region, and none of us will be allowed to establish a permanent military presence in the region. However, each state will be allowed to sponsor foreign civilian infrastructure projects, including but not limited to, ports and airports.

[Alanston]

Minister Song and Damarwulan share a glance between each other, their faces dropping as the Californian and Atomic delegates make their counter proposals. Finally, when they have finished, Damarwulan crosses his arms and eyes the other ministers sternly for a good few minutes in silence. Finally, he would speak.

"Absolutely not! Did neither of you hear me? We will not stand for outside powers holding land in Asia. This is not the 19th century anymore, no one will stand for colonialist or imperialist actions in Asia. Especially by arrogant Americans. This is not a question of 'fairness' as you both seem keen on insisting, but rather on locations and culture. The areas we selected, except maybe Zhejiang and Shanghai, have been specifically selected due to the fact that Chinese immigrants to Nusantara come from those regions. Thus there are over 16 million people in Nusantara who have a shared heritage to the regions we specifically outlined. Yet that is beside the point. You both seem to think that it is a matter of fairness that the lands we outlined have however many millions of people, while your lands have only a couple million? That just means we would have a more difficult time ruling over our lands, while both of you would not have as difficult time ruling over lands with relatively small populations of foreigners. Not to mention the fact that both of you, whose lands lie 10,000km from Asia, if not more, want to take land that has no cultural or geographic connection to you. Just so you can claim that the outcome is 'fair'. No, this is not acceptable.

"Shall we compare this to our taking of Honduras, as mentioned by the Californians. For what purpose, other than imperialism or neo-colonialism, would we want to take land in the Americas? Land that is thousands of kilometres away from our main lands, which would be an absolute pain to administer, whose culture is not even remotely like our own, and whose neighbours likely wouldn't take kindly to our presence? I'll answer that simply for you, there is no reason aside from neo-colonialism or imperialism for us to take those lands.

"I made this suggestion today in regards to bringing democracy to a people who have been without it for far too long. Not, as you seem to suggest, so we could practice empire building in one of the most culturally and historically rich areas in Asia. Your nations being able to share land in Yingzhou would be naught but a side benefit for both of you, something to help ease the cost of the war. The lands we claimed were to help offset our costs, to reunite culturally similar regions, and to assist with our peacekeeping efforts in the region. With regards to Hawaii, the Californians raise a fair point, and I see both options there as being valid.

"Now, would either of you like to adjust your demands for land in Asia?" He finishes, staring at the Californians and Atomics with a firm gaze.

In a corner, oblivious to all, and surrounded by other soldiers and generals, one of the soldiers would be making notes on the meeting and everything that is being discussed. It is incredibly unlikely that anyone would notice this soldier.

[English Channel Union]

Jessica will be shocked at the statements from the Nusantara, standing firm by her statement
I will not stand for such accusations, this is not about imperialism or control, the Alliance will establish a government constructed of purely Chinese Officials, we will simply serve as an interim peacekeeping force and protect the strategic locations from possible uprisings to establish the Fengs dictatorship. The Nusantara could oversee the majority however I think we are both aware of why the Guangxi and Guizhou provinces with the city of Zhanjiang are of such importance to our Alliance and interests. We would be willing to openly cooperate with your government, but of course, we would like to have a presence during the rebuilding construction of these regions.

Jessica will clear her throat, keeping a stern look at Damarwulan
I think we are both aware, a presence in mainland China would not be permanent for either of us.

She will continue to look offended at Damarwulan's accusations of imperialism

[NCR]

At the accusations of imperialism made by Damarwulan, Sara eyes widen, bewildered, while Pierre's look darkens with badly concealed anger.
As he was just about to start speaking, Sara perceives the emotions of her collegue, and acting fast she spoke first.

<<Gentlemen, PLEASE!>> she exclaimed, staring in the eyes of all the representatives.
<<Let's take a deep, DEEP, breath, and everybody calm down>> she continues.

<<Now, what you said Mr. Damarwulan is surely a lot to unpack. So I'll start by answering my collegues of the Atomic Alliance first. I can agree on the partition you proposed of Yingzhou, although I don't agree on your proposal of how to manage Hawaii. But, that being said, I think we will adress such secondary problems after we've dealt with the main one. Nominally>> she turns, facing Damarwulan directly

<<Your statement, Mr. Damarwulan. I will be blunt: what you said is highly unbefitting of your diplomatic stature. But like I said before>> she looks around, fierce, almost daring somebody to interrupt her <<I really believe that what we're doing here is far bigger than the current issue at hand. Call me naive or idealistic, I don't care, but I really believe we can build a powerful democratic block together. As such, I'll pretend that the baseless insults thrown at my nation didn't happen, provided that the following be clear:>> she took a deep breath, before continuing:

<<First of all, I'd like to remind everyone that we met together because our nations are all powerful democracies. We may disagree on what the best way to spread democracy is, but we are here because we all agree that democracy is an important value for us, if not the most important one.

That being said, like Mr. Damarwulan said this is not the 19th century; and I shall remind that it was in that century that the NCR was barely born. Even if we would have wanted to "colonize" another nation, how could we do it? Your nation, Mr. Damarwulan, has a very long and rich history. You should rejoice about that, because it's rightfully a pride; but you should be equally careful not to reminisce scars accrued in that long history against nations which weren't even born when someone inflicted them. It's true that history often rhymes, but it's also true that it often sings new stanzas.

Specifically, regardless of the reason of the war, I shall remind that good Californian people will die for it, and won't die any less nor more than yours;
we're considering sacrificing lives of my fellow countrymen, and yours, only because we believe that the cause of spreading democracy is just, and because in doing so we believe we can, in the long run, improve the lives of both people who already are considered our citizens, and people who could be.

And that is what I mean when I talk about "fairness": it has nothing to do with wanton colonialism, and everything to do on how we want our peoples and ideals to prosper and spread; which is the same, exact reasons which move your nation.

As such, I want to say that what we would do in Asia wouldn't differ to what we would do in America only because the conitinent is different, which is more of less the same thing you want to do: you would not call that colonialism, wouldn't you? So why would we be more hypocritical? Only because our capital is in America? While not as many as you, we too have citizens of chinese ethnicity; why would we start being racist, when our country was basically founded on external immigration? You can see that even in our names: my family was obviously anglophone in heritage; Pierre's francophone; of course there are the italophones, and I could go on.
Once again: why wouldn't you trust fellow democratic would-be-allies to be fair and equal as you are?

Lastly, I want to add that we did not lay claims in Asia, yet. Once again this is not the 19th century, we don't want to subdivide other countries with rulers and compasses; we just want a post-war compromise which will be fair to everyone involved, the defeated included if possible, and that will also take in account the lives that were spent to reach that compromise. It's true that lands are the easiest form to reach that compromise, but maybe they aren't the only ones, and we are open to your alternative proposals.>> She seemed to end her speech, only to start speaking again:

<<I know I spoke a lot, but once again I beg all of you: let us not see each other as potential rivals, colonizers, or monsters. We're here talking as beacons of freedom, as equals. Let's try to see our similarities instead of our differences, let us dare to HOPE that we, togheter, can build a brighter future instead of repeating the errors of the past. Let us see each other like brothers and sisters, and try to assume that we wouldn't behave so differently regarding the issues we care the most. With this I really am done, and I leave my hope, and our fate, within your hands.>> Sara sat down, looking almost drained, like she put every fiber of her being into the words she spoke.

[Alanston]

After Vice Minister Middle finishes her speech, Minister Song would turn to Damarwulan, and speak quietly to him in Dayak, the local language of Pontianak. It is highly unlikely that the visiting diplomats would be able to understand them.
"Things are quickly spiraling out of control here. Perhaps you were a tad hasty in the accusations of imperialism and neo-colonialism."

Damarwulan would reply in Dayak, just as quietly.
"Admittedly, perhaps you have a point. But you know as well as I that we can not stand for these Americans to take land here in Asia."

"Agreed. Though the Californians seem conciliatory on this point, perhaps we should find out what might please them in regards to alternative proposals?"

"Possibly, but there is still the Atomic Alliance to think about. Personally, I think their claims for 'spreading democracy' are naught but a cover for empire building. Somehow I doubt they would be willing to settle for less than land in Asia."

"This is unfortunate, but you likely have a point. Still, allow me to ask about these 'alternate proposals' the Californians are hinting at."

"Very well. Ask your questions, but we must be prepared in case neither are willing to budge."

Song would nod, agreeing with Damarwulan, before turning to face the Atomic and Californian delegates. "My apologies for my colleague, he can get a little emotional at times. I have shown him the errors of his comments." She begins emphatically, speaking heavily accented English this time. "Minister Jessica, you must understand our point of view on this. First, that a nation based in the Americas demanding land in Asia comes across awfully like that nation has imperialist tendencies. Regardless of what the truth may be. So, unfortunately, I must repeat what Minister Damarwulan stated, being that we can not, and will not, allow either of you to control land in Asia. You may state that Guangxi and Guizhou are of importance to your interests, but they are also lands in Asia, and as such we simply can not recognize your claims over the lands.

"Minister Middle made a comment about not letting our history get the better of us, but we have seen time and again foreign nations taking land on continents other than their own, and how that has turned out for the local people in those lands. So, forgive us for sticking to our historical examples, but we have yet to see a foreign power acquire land in a different continent or part of the world, and willingly relinquish it. To answer the unspoken question, no, we do not have any interest in finding out if either of your nations are the exception to this rule, as the risks are too great." She pauses, collecting her thoughts before continuing.

"Now, Minister Middle stated that the Californians would be open to alternative proposals. Would the Atomic Alliance also be open to alternative proposals, or are you firm on your demands for land in Asia?" Song asks Minister Jessica directly, before turning to Minister Middle. "And, Minister Middle, what sort of alternative proposals do you have in mind? Being the one who brought the term up, I would like to hear what you have to say on the matter."